Grreetings!!

I am returning to aircraft ownership after 15 years. the other day, I
was looking to purchase an airplane that I saw advertised. The price
and features looked real good, EVERYTHING i wanted!! except it had a
run out engine. over 2100 hrs.

they we're asking about $ 28,000 for the plane (cessna 150 with all the
bells) I thought the price was good??? was actualy going to purchase
the plane. I called the seller and we spoke a bit on the phone. told
them I was VERY intrested and would give an offer.

Putzing around last night, surfing the web I found out about AOPA's
Vref and NAAA evaluator. Just for FUN I entered the information on
the plane for $ 28,000

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
plane big time !

The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
tto no value to the basic airplane!

When I called the seller to day with my FAIR offer of $ 18,000 dollars
CASH for the above plane he went NUTS! and started to go crazy on
me, get mad, cussing, etc, etc, etc,

I told him the Vref and NAAA numbers but he went into orbit ( think he
has had others say the same bad news)

I told him that I was NOT trying to Ripp him off , but trying to pay a
FAIR price for his plane.

Am I wrong or out of line in this matter?? I think that if a BANK, or
insurance company is only going to loan / insure $ 12,500 to 13,500
dollars for an airplane then THATS all its TRULY WORTH!!!

I think my offer of $ 18,000 dollars CASH was more than fair for the
plane. that's $ 4500 bucks over the Vref and NAAA value.

PLEASE provide comments if I am wrong in this matter, then I can re
-offer but some how I think someone is looking for a fish to fry!

THANK GOD for V ref & trade a plane NAAA as I would have paid the
$ 28, grand give or take!

P.S. The BEST price that I got for and Overhaul is $ 9,000 grand using
the existing I engine.

wise purchaser wrote:
> Grreetings!!
>
> I am returning to aircraft ownership after 15 years. the other day, I
> was looking to purchase an airplane that I saw advertised. The price
> and features looked real good, EVERYTHING i wanted!! except it had a
> run out engine. over 2100 hrs.
>
> they we're asking about $ 28,000 for the plane (cessna 150 with all the
> bells) I thought the price was good??? was actualy going to purchase
> the plane. I called the seller and we spoke a bit on the phone. told
> them I was VERY intrested and would give an offer.
>
> Putzing around last night, surfing the web I found out about AOPA's
> Vref and NAAA evaluator. Just for FUN I entered the information on
> the plane for $ 28,000
>
> WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
> 12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
> plane big time !
>
> The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
> tto no value to the basic airplane!
>
> When I called the seller to day with my FAIR offer of $ 18,000 dollars
> CASH for the above plane he went NUTS! and started to go crazy on
> me, get mad, cussing, etc, etc, etc,
>
> I told him the Vref and NAAA numbers but he went into orbit ( think he
> has had others say the same bad news)
>
> I told him that I was NOT trying to Ripp him off , but trying to pay a
> FAIR price for his plane.
>
> Am I wrong or out of line in this matter?? I think that if a BANK, or
> insurance company is only going to loan / insure $ 12,500 to 13,500
> dollars for an airplane then THATS all its TRULY WORTH!!!
>
> I think my offer of $ 18,000 dollars CASH was more than fair for the
> plane. that's $ 4500 bucks over the Vref and NAAA value.
>
> PLEASE provide comments if I am wrong in this matter, then I can re
> -offer but some how I think someone is looking for a fish to fry!
>
> THANK GOD for V ref & trade a plane NAAA as I would have paid the
> $ 28, grand give or take!
>
> P.S. The BEST price that I got for and Overhaul is $ 9,000 grand using
> the existing I engine.
>
I used Vref once for the airplane I own. Then I paid an appraiser to do
the job (insurance issue)and Vref was generous. I really believe the
appraised value was more in line.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

wise purchaser wrote:

>
> WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
> 12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
> plane big time !
>
> The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
> tto no value to the basic airplane!

Vref and the Trade-A-Plane evaluator notoriously give inflated values
for airplanes. Without knowing the particulars of this individual case,
I'd say there's a good chance those values are *still* above fair market
value.

My personal preference for online evaluations is
http://www.aeroprice.com. They're not free, but the cost is minimal
compared to the potential for overpaying. I have no vested interest. I
have to admit it's been a few years since I've used them.

Dave

The plane evaluators tend to quote values that are way overpriced, much
like the "retail" price of cars.

Planes are worth what someone will pay for them. Unfortunately, there
are many buyers like your "former" self who have credit and no
information. They fall in love with the thought of owning an airplane
and just go out and buy one. This is tending to keep prices much higher
than they should be. The limited supply makes the problem worse.

Using a little trick I call "math", I figure a runout that is worth say,
$50k ready to go (with a fresh engine) and costs $20k for a complete
overhaul is only worth $30k. That concept seems lost on runout sellers
who price their planes as if they had fresh or mid time engines.

Sadly, if you really shop around, do your homework, have the planes
carefully inspected, and offer a fair price, chances are good that some
fool with more money than brains will buy it up from under you.

As I said, many owners are under the mistaken impression that they have
some God given right to buy an airplane at an inflated price, run it
out, and then make a tidy sum selling it. On the other side of the coin,
there are many, many tire kickers out there who don't have a clue about
how they will get the money for an airplane but insist on pulling
everyone's chain posing as prepared buyers.

Perhaps the current market slowdown will bring the overly optimistic
owners down to earth. 28 grand for a runout 150? Yeah, right.

Good Luck,
Mike


> I am returning to aircraft ownership after 15 years. the other day, I
> was looking to purchase an airplane that I saw advertised. The price
> and features looked real good, EVERYTHING i wanted!! except it had a
> run out engine. over 2100 hrs.
>
> they we're asking about $ 28,000 for the plane (cessna 150 with all the
> bells) I thought the price was good??? was actualy going to purchase
> the plane. I called the seller and we spoke a bit on the phone. told
> them I was VERY intrested and would give an offer.
>
> Putzing around last night, surfing the web I found out about AOPA's
> Vref and NAAA evaluator. Just for FUN I entered the information on
> the plane for $ 28,000
>
> WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
> 12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
> plane big time !
>

On 2006-09-22, wise purchaser > wrote:
> run out engine. over 2100 hrs.
>
> 12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
> plane big time !

Yep, the engine is a huge cost to overhaul and its condition has a
dramatic effect on airplane valuation. And sellers are reluctant to
take it into account. I looked at a lot of planes while shopping, and
I don't think I saw any that were sufficiently discounted for tired
engines, but you can bet the owners who were fresh out of an overhaul
were looking to recoup every cent. The best deals seemed to be in
mid-time engines, where the shock of overhaul was in the past (and
priced lower at the time), but the engine still has a lot of time left.

> The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
> tto no value to the basic airplane!

Good radios do add value, but there's not that much market for a little
trainer with a super IFR setup. An HSI costs the same to add to a 152
or a 182, but it has a lot more utility in a 182, and buyers will realize
that.

> When I called the seller to day with my FAIR offer of $ 18,000 dollars
> CASH for the above plane he went NUTS! and started to go crazy on
> me, get mad, cussing, etc, etc, etc,

Well, did you make him an offer for $10k more first? I'd be ****ed if
someone negotiated with me and then chopped 1/3rd off their offer.

> P.S. The BEST price that I got for and Overhaul is $ 9,000 grand using
> the existing I engine.

Are you counting all the labor to take it off, ship it, put it back on,
replace all the misc parts that will come up at the same time? And the
months of downtime?

If you DO buy it (or any high-time engine plane), don't overhaul it just
because of hours... Just take the run time into account if something
comes up that calls for a lesser repair if you think that the lesser
repair would outlast the rest of the engine.

--
Ben Jackson AD7GD
>
http://www.ben.com/

A Cessna 150 with a runout engine for $28K? He has to be nuts. A buddy
in the hangar behind me has bought several 150's with mid time engines
for about $16K. No 150 is worth $28K unless it's sporting a Garmin 430
and an autopilot and a factory new engine. Keep looking.




wise purchaser wrote:
> Grreetings!!
>
> I am returning to aircraft ownership after 15 years. the other day, I
> was looking to purchase an airplane that I saw advertised. The price
> and features looked real good, EVERYTHING i wanted!! except it had a
> run out engine. over 2100 hrs.
>
> they we're asking about $ 28,000 for the plane (cessna 150 with all the
> bells) I thought the price was good??? was actualy going to purchase
> the plane. I called the seller and we spoke a bit on the phone. told
> them I was VERY intrested and would give an offer.
>
> Putzing around last night, surfing the web I found out about AOPA's
> Vref and NAAA evaluator. Just for FUN I entered the information on
> the plane for $ 28,000
>
> WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
> 12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
> plane big time !

Ben Jackson wrote:


>
> Well, did you make him an offer for $10k more first? I'd be ****ed if
> someone negotiated with me and then chopped 1/3rd off their offer.

But if you're not in the ballpark as a seller to start with you better
have thick skin.

wise purchaser wrote:
>
> WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
> 12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
> plane big time !
>
> The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
> tto no value to the basic airplane!

Yup. Besides... who needs STOL with a Cessna 150????
>
> When I called the seller to day with my FAIR offer of $ 18,000 dollars
> CASH for the above plane he went NUTS! and started to go crazy on
> me, get mad, cussing, etc, etc, etc,

He's a nutcase.
>
> I told him the Vref and NAAA numbers but he went into orbit ( think he
> has had others say the same bad news)
>
> I told him that I was NOT trying to Ripp him off , but trying to pay a
> FAIR price for his plane.
>
> Am I wrong or out of line in this matter?? I think that if a BANK, or
> insurance company is only going to loan / insure $ 12,500 to 13,500
> dollars for an airplane then THATS all its TRULY WORTH!!!
>
No. Nice work. You are plannign on spending a lot of money, you are
allowed to be critical of the plane you buy.
>
>
> PLEASE provide comments if I am wrong in this matter, then I can re
> -offer but some how I think someone is looking for a fish to fry!
>

Keep up the good work. Besides, you might get bored with a 150 after
a while and want something faster.

kontiki wrote:

> Yup. Besides... who needs STOL with a Cessna 150????


Any 150 would benefit from STOL. The 150s we used to run ate up
so much runway on takeoff that a STOL kit would have been a good idea.
Our airport is at 3000' ASL, and on a warm day the performance was
dismal. That, added to the fact that they cost almost as much to run as
a 172, made us finally get rid of them. They weren't the best deal for
the student, as he would spend most of his time climbing: fewer
circuits per hour, fewer spins or stalls. The really old straight-tail
150s were lighter, better streamlined, and had better performance. We
used to joke that the 150 was a good taxi trainer.
I briefly had the use of a 1967 Aircoupe (the final version of
the Ercoupe), and with its 90-hp engine it outperformed the 150 in just
about every way. Shorter takeoff, faster climb, faster cruise. Slips
were lousy (it had rudder pedals but ineffective rudders) and it wasn't
very comfortable, but it used that 90 hp much more efficiently than the
150 uses its 100 horses.
The 150's Continental had more valve problems than our Lycs
ever did. The engine has an optimistic 1800 hour TBO. It leaks oil more
often. I often wonder if the 100-hp rating is honest. If it has a
Marvel Schebler carb (most do), the carb spider has to be properly and
flexibly and fussily mounted with the Lock-O-Seal washers that so few
people know about, or it'll run like a toilet when vibration shakes
fuel out of the bowl vent into the carb throat. The engine wouldn't
tolerate agressive (or clumsy) leaning as well as the Lyc.

Dan

a lot of owners/sellers have inflated values on what they think there
aircraft is worth..

A C-150 like that, the engine is 1/2 the value.. at least..

they paid that much so it must be worth that much.. they forget that they
used up equity in the engine, and they did not pay themselves into an engine
fund.. so they have no cash value to set aside to reflect the engine cost or
rebuild it

BT

"wise purchaser" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Grreetings!!
>
> I am returning to aircraft ownership after 15 years. the other day, I
> was looking to purchase an airplane that I saw advertised. The price
> and features looked real good, EVERYTHING i wanted!! except it had a
> run out engine. over 2100 hrs.
>
> they we're asking about $ 28,000 for the plane (cessna 150 with all the
> bells) I thought the price was good??? was actualy going to purchase
> the plane. I called the seller and we spoke a bit on the phone. told
> them I was VERY intrested and would give an offer.
>
> Putzing around last night, surfing the web I found out about AOPA's
> Vref and NAAA evaluator. Just for FUN I entered the information on
> the plane for $ 28,000
>
> WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
> 12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
> plane big time !
>
> The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
> tto no value to the basic airplane!
>
> When I called the seller to day with my FAIR offer of $ 18,000 dollars
> CASH for the above plane he went NUTS! and started to go crazy on
> me, get mad, cussing, etc, etc, etc,
>
> I told him the Vref and NAAA numbers but he went into orbit ( think he
> has had others say the same bad news)
>
> I told him that I was NOT trying to Ripp him off , but trying to pay a
> FAIR price for his plane.
>
> Am I wrong or out of line in this matter?? I think that if a BANK, or
> insurance company is only going to loan / insure $ 12,500 to 13,500
> dollars for an airplane then THATS all its TRULY WORTH!!!
>
> I think my offer of $ 18,000 dollars CASH was more than fair for the
> plane. that's $ 4500 bucks over the Vref and NAAA value.
>
> PLEASE provide comments if I am wrong in this matter, then I can re
> -offer but some how I think someone is looking for a fish to fry!
>
> THANK GOD for V ref & trade a plane NAAA as I would have paid the
> $ 28, grand give or take!
>
> P.S. The BEST price that I got for and Overhaul is $ 9,000 grand using
> the existing I engine.
>

On 22 Sep 2006 13:15:19 -0700, "wise purchaser"
> wrote:

>Am I wrong or out of line in this matter??


You are not wrong. I know someone trying to sell a completely
overhauled 172 for 40 who is having trouble. New paint, overhauled
engine, instrument panel, interior, and instruments all new and/or
overhauled depending on original condition. A very meticulous
mechanic. 28,000 dollars for a run out 150 isn't realistic.

HTH,
z

Dave Butler wrote:
> wise purchaser wrote:
>
> >
> > WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
> > 12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
> > plane big time !
> >
> > The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
> > tto no value to the basic airplane!
>
> Vref and the Trade-A-Plane evaluator notoriously give inflated values
> for airplanes. Without knowing the particulars of this individual case,
> I'd say there's a good chance those values are *still* above fair market
> value.
>


Its also regional. On the West coast you'll usually pay more than Vref
as that is what the market is doing. Lots of great deals on the East
coast (especially Florida).

-Robert

Whats there to go nuts over. You offer what you want to pay. He asks for
what he wants. If the two numbers are close enough you may have a deal..
if they aren't, he just has to say no.. and you move on.

No drama required.

Dave

wise purchaser wrote:
> Grreetings!!
>
> I am returning to aircraft ownership after 15 years. the other day, I
> was looking to purchase an airplane that I saw advertised. The price
> and features looked real good, EVERYTHING i wanted!! except it had a
> run out engine. over 2100 hrs.
>
> they we're asking about $ 28,000 for the plane (cessna 150 with all the
> bells) I thought the price was good??? was actualy going to purchase
> the plane. I called the seller and we spoke a bit on the phone. told
> them I was VERY intrested and would give an offer.
>
> Putzing around last night, surfing the web I found out about AOPA's
> Vref and NAAA evaluator. Just for FUN I entered the information on
> the plane for $ 28,000
>
> WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
> 12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
> plane big time !
>
> The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
> tto no value to the basic airplane!
>
> When I called the seller to day with my FAIR offer of $ 18,000 dollars
> CASH for the above plane he went NUTS! and started to go crazy on
> me, get mad, cussing, etc, etc, etc,
>
> I told him the Vref and NAAA numbers but he went into orbit ( think he
> has had others say the same bad news)
>
> I told him that I was NOT trying to Ripp him off , but trying to pay a
> FAIR price for his plane.
>
> Am I wrong or out of line in this matter?? I think that if a BANK, or
> insurance company is only going to loan / insure $ 12,500 to 13,500
> dollars for an airplane then THATS all its TRULY WORTH!!!
>
> I think my offer of $ 18,000 dollars CASH was more than fair for the
> plane. that's $ 4500 bucks over the Vref and NAAA value.
>
> PLEASE provide comments if I am wrong in this matter, then I can re
> -offer but some how I think someone is looking for a fish to fry!
>
> THANK GOD for V ref & trade a plane NAAA as I would have paid the
> $ 28, grand give or take!
>
> P.S. The BEST price that I got for and Overhaul is $ 9,000 grand using
> the existing I engine.
>

On 22 Sep 2006 13:15:19 -0700, "wise purchaser" >
wrote:

>
>WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
>12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
>plane big time !
>
>The other features such as STOL, extra fuel , good radios, added little
>tto no value to the basic airplane!
>
>When I called the seller to day with my FAIR offer of $ 18,000 dollars
>CASH for the above plane he went NUTS! and started to go crazy on
>me, get mad, cussing, etc, etc, etc,
>
>I told him the Vref and NAAA numbers but he went into orbit ( think he
>has had others say the same bad news)
>

Vref seems to give inflated prices. I don't understand why you would offer
him $5,000 MORE than Vref.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

In article . com>,
"wise purchaser" > wrote:

[snip]
> Putzing around last night, surfing the web I found out about AOPA's
> Vref and NAAA evaluator. Just for FUN I entered the information on
> the plane for $ 28,000
>
> WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the airplane was only ( V ref & NAAA) worth $
> 12, 500 to 13,500 bucks! the run out engine hurt the value of the
> plane big time !
[snip]

As others have said, vref always seems high.

However, I'd like to point out something that changed with vref. I don't
know when they did it, but when I went to vref this past week, it no longer
adds value for radios like an extra KX-155, or an ADF, or a DME. Vref
is much more realistic in the items to add value. No value for "old
technology" like a second radio, but finally adds value for things like
engine upgrades.

For my cherokee 140, vref previously returned a value of more than $53,000
(with no credit for the 160hp STC). Now it's just a little more than $50,000,
with credit for the 160hp STC, low TT (2415), and low engine time (100 SMOH).
Probably still too high in today's market, but more realistic.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

wise purchaser wrote:
> Grreetings!!
>
> I am returning to aircraft ownership after 15 years. the other day, I
> was looking to purchase an airplane that I saw advertised. The price
> and features looked real good, EVERYTHING i wanted!! except it had a
> run out engine. over 2100 hrs.
[snip]

Where are you located?

You should also start seeing as many airplanes as you can of the type
you want. I didn't start to get a feel for prices and quality until I
had visited 4 or 5 airplanes and owners.

Now to your particular question, I'm no expert in C150 values, but for
damn sure a C150 with 2100 hours on the engine is worth $15K tops, and
as others have said, probably less. A C150 is not Sport Airplane
qualified so doesn't gain value there, and an engine rebuild from a
good shop with a good reputation is going to run, what, $12K-$15K?

As for the owner's reaction, that doesn't surprise me. Walk away from
that one and keep looking. And I'll add, you really should do some
more preparation. You state you initially thought $28K was a good
price...please...that's nowhere near correct.

--
I've finally learned what "upward compatible" means. It means we get
to keep all our old mistakes.
Dennie van Tassel

>>>>> "DT" == Dan Thomas > writes:
DT> I briefly had the use of a 1967 Aircoupe (the final
DT> version of the Ercoupe), and with its 90-hp engine it
DT> outperformed the 150 in just about every way. Shorter takeoff,
DT> faster climb, faster cruise. Slips were lousy (it had rudder
DT> pedals but ineffective rudders) and it wasn't very
DT> comfortable, but it used that 90 hp much more efficiently than
DT> the 150 uses its 100 horses.

This is very true. I have a '65 Alon Aircoupe, quite similar to the
model you describe. It cruises just 3-5 kts slower than a C172 and
climbout performance is not bad at all on a cool day with just the
pilot.
--
Programmers are in a race with the Universe to create bigger and
better idiot-proof programs, while the Universe is trying to create
bigger and better idiots. So far the Universe is winning.
Anon

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:51:17 -0600, Newps > wrote:

>
>
>Ben Jackson wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Well, did you make him an offer for $10k more first? I'd be ****ed if
>> someone negotiated with me and then chopped 1/3rd off their offer.
>
>But if you're not in the ballpark as a seller to start with you better
>have thick skin.

Why would I need a thick skin? If the person on the other end can
present their case in a professional and calm manner I'll listen. If
they can't even if they are willing to meet my price I hang up.

Sure, I'd sell the Deb which is the oldest of its type in existence
for a slightly exorbitant price which means the purchaser would need
to want it more than I do. Always stored inside, but still needs
paint. After a 1000 hours the upholstery looks pretty good but still
needs work, the engine only has a few hundred to TBO and doesn't even
require adding oil between changes, and the radios are elaborate for
their time, but that was a long time ago.<:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in message
...
>
> Why would I need a thick skin? If the person on the other end can
> present their case in a professional and calm manner I'll listen. If
> they can't even if they are willing to meet my price I hang up.
>
> Sure, I'd sell the Deb which is the oldest of its type in existence
> for a slightly exorbitant price which means the purchaser would need
> to want it more than I do.

Hmmm...Roger, you just stated the basis of the Austrian school of Economics
(Free Market, now most commonly known as the Chicago School).
Buyers/Sellers, employers/employees, it all fits.

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 16:56:58 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> wrote:

>"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Why would I need a thick skin? If the person on the other end can
>> present their case in a professional and calm manner I'll listen. If
>> they can't even if they are willing to meet my price I hang up.
>>
>> Sure, I'd sell the Deb which is the oldest of its type in existence
>> for a slightly exorbitant price which means the purchaser would need
>> to want it more than I do.
>
>Hmmm...Roger, you just stated the basis of the Austrian school of Economics
>(Free Market, now most commonly known as the Chicago School).
>Buyers/Sellers, employers/employees, it all fits.
>
When I was a project manager I ran my meetings the same way. No
shouting, no swearing, and no berating. I adhered to the old "That's
once, That's twice"... and the meeting was over. It didn't even matter
if we had a deadline. I got called on the carpet the first time I did
that. I gave my reasons and never had to worry about it again. When
the dust settled I never had to worry about meetings getting out of
hand again either. <:-))
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 16:56:58 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> Why would I need a thick skin? If the person on the other end can
>>> present their case in a professional and calm manner I'll listen. If
>>> they can't even if they are willing to meet my price I hang up.
>>>
>>> Sure, I'd sell the Deb which is the oldest of its type in existence
>>> for a slightly exorbitant price which means the purchaser would need
>>> to want it more than I do.
>>
>>Hmmm...Roger, you just stated the basis of the Austrian school of
>>Economics
>>(Free Market, now most commonly known as the Chicago School).
>>Buyers/Sellers, employers/employees, it all fits.
>>
> When I was a project manager I ran my meetings the same way. No
> shouting, no swearing, and no berating. I adhered to the old "That's
> once, That's twice"... and the meeting was over. It didn't even matter
> if we had a deadline. I got called on the carpet the first time I did
> that. I gave my reasons and never had to worry about it again. When
> the dust settled I never had to worry about meetings getting out of
> hand again either. <:-))

Even more, every trade is "arms length"; no whining, no sniveling. If
you've got a better deal, go for it, but if not, don't complain to me. If
some one is willing to offer more money , take it. If someone is willing to
offer a cheaper price, go there. Likewise, if someone undersells you, the
merchant, match their price or find more efficient ways of conducting
business; don't use government to protect your business, your markets, OR
your job.